Clancy Brown Interview
Part 2

Interviewed by Beth Blighton
12/12/03



Beth: A lot of people have landed on the breakfast scene or whatever it was… the liver chopping scene…

Clancy: Oh. my God!

Beth: …as proof positive, though we didn’t actually see it, that Justin and Iris have gotten together and consummated this forbidden relationship. What do YOU think?

Clancy: I think people can see whatever they wanna see. It’s part of the carnival, part of the fireball show, ya know?

Beth: (laughing) Yes it is!

Clancy: If you see it, you see it. And this is also the way I was when looking for renewal – when I see it, then that’s what it is. If somebody is just playing games and doing semantics with me, and not showing me something, then there’s a reason they’re not showing me something! They’re trying to fool me…

Beth: That’s the way I look at it, too.

Clancy: We didn’t… Amy and I didn’t play it, and didn’t presume that there was any consummation of any lust or mutual lust. But there was, certainly, some kind of acknowledgement of it between us. And so, what was in our heads, at that moment, when we were playing that scene? It was simply that now we know that at least Justin wants to screw her.

Beth: Which she didn’t seem to be objecting to, too much. Considering Tommy Dolan got a slap upside the head, and Justin just got looked at…

Clancy: Right. Which is a tribute to Amy’s power as an actress, because the fact is, she’s HALF my size.

Beth: Yes she is!

Clancy: (laughing) Ya know? And anyone else would have been terrified into submitting. But she’s a tough cookie, so…

Beth: All I could think, when he throws her down on the couch, is that she’s about to try to talk her way out of this one, yet again. She was starting to say something!

Clancy: Right…

Beth: She wasn’t anywhere close to done talking yet, or just giving in to whatever her fate may be.

Clancy: Yeah, the scene ended differently when we shot it, so…

Beth: Oh, really?

Clancy: But, I mean, I’m sure that they… HBO was very hot to have then get together in the first season. And we were v-e-r-y reluctant to do it, Amy and I. Because we felt it was too early for them to… We didn’t want the whole season culminating to that moment, cuz that’s really not what they’re about. It’s a sidelight to what they’re about. Ya know? It’s one of the things that informs them, informs their character and informs their motives. And everything else is this kind of repression. Which is much more interesting to me than just some kind of guilt or consummated guilt. “I did something bad, I committed a sin with you…and I’m… Now that’s gonna inform it the whole way…” It’s much more interesting if “I want to sleep with you, and you KNOW it… but I’m not going to because of what we BOTH know.”
Then… THEN it can rear its head at any moment! And then the tension continues, and it’s frightening. I think any kind of conversation with anyone else – like that conversation with Tommy Dolan, when Justin said, “You want my sister?” It’s like, whoa, my goodness! THAT line has been crossed! That’s definitely directed at embarrassing both his sister AND Tommy. So it can pop up and manifest itself at any moment, in any kind of guise. It’s a nice thing to have in your back pocket.
Have we slept with each other…? Ya know, I can understand how people would think that. I don’t think so, honestly, I don’t.

Beth: Well, my thinking is that -- being as it is a motivating factor or something that’s percolating there in the background, it would be something that they would actually SHOW us if it had happened, ya know what I mean?

Clancy: Yeah, yeah… right!

Beth: And say, “This is a momentous decision here.” Because he has to throw everything else he believe in aside to say, “This is what I want more than anything. Nothing else matters.”

Clancy: Yeah, right! And there was a good post to that affect, too, sort of in a very cynical, kinda cultural way, saying that, “Well, ya know, they showed Apollonia getting raped. So the reason they didn’t show the Justin/Iris combination was because it wasn’t rape.” -- and so, therefore not worthy of dramatization or something. And I was like, “Noooo…” That’s… That is a really… I mean, it was completely rational, but it’s really kind of a scary thought, so…

Beth: Because that would be such a life-altering decision for them to make. As much influence as she has in his life, as inter-dependent as they are on one another, if you change that relationship, which it would…

Clancy: Yeah…

Beth: It’s gonna be major!

Clancy: Right! And there’s… That’s just… You’re right, you’re right… And there’s so much more to be mined from just that part of their nature that isn’t satisfied, I think.

Beth: Oh, yes! Frustration and jealousy and power, and all the other classics!

Clancy: Yeah, I mean, we already saw Justin try to pimp his sister. I mean, holy moly!

Beth: Although, I took that more as a very wicked sarcasm, just to try to put Iris back in her place, and put Tommy on the spot.

Clancy: Of course! Of course it was… But hey! It was what it was…

Beth: Yeah, take my sister – please! (laughing)

Clancy: And it’s not like there isn’t precedent for that in the show, to begin with, so…

Beth: The scenes with you and Amy are just great. And the scenes where you throw Tommy into the mix are even better. Because it’s not all written there in the script. A lot of it is just so there in the acting. Like the scene where Tommy comes to the door and finds that you’re back home, that was a great little scene. I loved it with those sidelong glances at Iris & Tommy, and the huffing out of the room… And Iris playing her little game of, “Well, let’s just invite Tommy to church, if you’re going to be a spoiled baby about this!”

Clancy: (laughing) Oh, man… We went right down that path to begin with. They actually had to hold us back, cuz we were just being very petulant and funny.

Beth: I thought it was great. The way she manipulates him is wonderful. Cuz here he is… He’s comin’ home – home from the asylum – and he thinks he’s got it all figured out…

Clancy: Right!

Beth: He’s thinkin’ “I’ve got the world on a string!”

Clancy: Yeah…

Beth: And within minutes, she’s got him right back where she wants him… just that quick. And I’m still looking at that Balthus revelation, too…

Clancy: Yeah, well when we shot that, we weren’t sure whether Balthus was killed or not…

Beth: Really?

Clancy: Yeah.

Beth: At what point would he have been killed? Do you think Brother Justin might have done him in?

Clancy: Well, we just couldn’t figure it out. We couldn’t figure out… There was a moment in an early draft of the script where, at the end of that scene, Balthus is subsumed by some dark cloud or something…

Beth: Hmmm…

Clancy: And it was a little too extreme, but the question mark for the whole final episode was, “Who’s alive and who’s dead?” So… It’s possible that Balthus is dead, though I don’t think so.

Beth: They didn’t give us that much of an indication that he was in any kind of physical peril, so… I’d agree with you. I don’t think he’s dead, either. Plus, I think he serves a better purpose alive, since he’s the one man who knows what’s going on with Justin – or he thinks he does.

Clancy: Right.

Beth: I’m thinking really, what the test is now… If Justin was really thinking clearly and he was really actually worried about finding out if he IS a demon or not… The test now is to look into Balthus’ soul again, and see what he sees now. Because, if he sees Balthus rescuing the two children, again, then maybe his greatest sin is saving Iris. But if the next time he looks he sees that Balthus’ worst sin is not bashing Justin in the head with that candlestick, then he’ll know for sure he’s the evil he fears he is.

Clancy: Or… maybe the power is not just revealing someone’s worst sin. Maybe it’s something else!

Beth: Aha!

Clancy: Maybe it’s revealing their deepest desire…

Beth: Okay…

Clancy: Or maybe it’s the greatest turning point in their life somewhere. Maybe Templeton’s deepest desire was to sleep with this little boy, and he did it. Maybe Balthus’ deepest desire was to have a family, because he couldn’t and he saw his moment. I was trying to figure out a way to actually make that scene… How do you interpret that scene as self-serving to Balthus -- and a lot of people online have done it -- but also maintain what’s consistent in Balthus’ character, his humanity and sincerity. And you can want something that's worth wanting bad enough that you make a wrong decision, whether you know it’s a wrong decision or not.

Beth: Yeah…

Clancy: So… And no matter how good of a person you are, you can do the right thing for the wrong reasons, you can do the wrong thing for the right reasons.

Beth: Because, right now, he seems to be the last righteous man standing.

Clancy: Yeah…

Beth: And I don’t have a problem with that. Because there have been people just waiting to see what kind of horrible spider is gonna coming crawling out of his closet.

Clancy: And ya know, I don’t think a lot of these things are gonna be tied up that neatly. I think that some of these, it’s okay to leave them ambiguous. Some of these questions are okay left ambiguous. Like the fetus in the jar… It’s really not important. It can be whatever you think it is. It MAY pay off, but if it doesn’t pay off, then all it was, was what it was.

Beth: (chuckling) Maybe a cigar is just a cigar, maybe a bear is just a bear…

Clancy: (laughing) Yeah! And sometimes ambiguity itself is more informative than having some neat little plot moment that completely explains down to the last detail what was going on in someone’s mind at this time. I mean, too much exposition is just that, ya know, too much exposition. And we got other fish to fry!

Beth: Oh yeah, we do…

Clancy: But that being said… Is there gonna be a payoff for fetus in the jar? Perhaps.

Beth: You never know…

Clancy: There might be. It might be one of those things that actually, there was a payoff intended, or people perceive that they actually need one.

Beth: Well, fandom has certainly landed on that one.

Clancy: Yeah! Well, and it was early, too. But I always thought that was just kind of a moody thing… That was a mood thing. That was not so important, cuz this isn’t a comic book, it’s a big ol’ novel about the human condition. So there’s a lot that we can’t explain, cuz nobody quite knows all those answers. It’s a weird thing, so minute… To me, if you explain something so minute, then you kinda lose your credibility, in a way. Cuz it’s presumptuous to claim to know the answer to everything. That’s what bugs me about a lot of movies these days, that they just have to answer every question. And it should be left up to the mystery of life and all the rest of that.


TO BE CONTINUED…