WIRX “Decoding Carnivale” call-in with Clancy Brown • 03-21-05

This is the transcript from Clancy’s radio call-in segment on Southwest Michigan’s WIRX/Rock 107.1, with Shelley Morgan.

SHELLEY: It’s a little after 4 o’clock. That means I’ve got Clancy Brown on the phone! It’s time to “Decode Carnivale”! Good show last night!

CLANCY: Not a lot of new information last night, though…

Shelley: We don’t need a lot of new information!

Clancy: Yeah, you’re right. We really don’t. We just sorta need some…

Shelley: Some things to happen!

Clancy: We need some logic strings tied up, ya know? We need this person… needs to know that, and that person needs to know this. And the whole Carnivale needs to know Management is dead, and that Jonesy can run, and all of that. So, we already know all that stuff. But it’s supposed to be interesting to see everybody else’s reaction.

Shelley: Oh, well it was great to see everyone else’s reaction last night! It was great to see Rita Sue’s reaction last night.

Clancy: She had a… She was GREAT, wasn’t she?

Shelley: Yes! And Debra was great!

Clancy: (chuckling) Debra was great! Debra really got a chance to shine!

Shelley: She just… She wasn’t letting that go. She had it all ready to come down on little Samson’s head. She was ready to squash him like a bug!

Clancy: (chuckling) Aw… That’s been hangin’ on since the first episode! (laughing) It’s kinda time to bring that around. Uh…

Shelley: But you’re right, it was time to bring it around, but it was the PERFECT time!

Clancy: You think? I woulda liked to seen it happen sooner, but… I guess it couldn’t have happened sooner, really.

Shelley: It couldn’t have happened sooner because Jonesy had to be healed. There had to be a reason for them to stick around with the Carnivale.

Clancy: Well, good. Now we know. We don’t know if Lila’s satisfied…

Shelley: I wasn’t prepared to see as many believing faces…

Clancy: (chuckling) Yeah! Yeah, ya know, Jonesy carries a lot of affection, I guess... (chuckling) in that whole Carnivale.

Shelley: I guess so!

Clancy: Ya know? If ya did that for Jonesy then, by golly, that’s good enough for me! (laughing)

Shelley: And the Carnivale just has to get there! They have to get to New Canaan, and stay together. And they’ve gotta do that just to tweak Justin!

Clancy: Just for that last shot.

Shelley: Yeah!

Clancy: Him looking out going, “Oh, damn…”

Shelley: Exactly. So, in the episode last night on HBO, Ben gets by a few of the house guards and wanders through the house. TONS of suspense! He walks into Iris’s room and finds one of the mirror shards, and looks into it…

Clancy: And then whatever that was that passed behind him…

Shelley: Well, it had to have been Justin!

Clancy: You think?

Shelley: Yeah!

Clancy: I dunno… It’s just a shadow, it’s just sumthin’!

Shelley: It was either…

Clancy: I don’t know what it was!

Shelley: It either had to be Justin or…

Clancy: Or Iris…

Shelley: Or Stroud!

Clancy: Could have been Stroud. I mean, it really wasn’t anything but a wash of a shadow, and I don’t really know what it was at all…

Shelley: Right, right. But Norman making a pretty big deal of moving his head to go upstairs…

Clancy: Yeah.

Shelley: To Ben… even though he didn’t know the significance of Ben.

Clancy: Yeah.

Shelley: There was just some guy in the house and, God, maybe it was somebody who came to kill Justin!

Clancy: (Laughing) Yeah!

Shelley: Just get him outta my life!

Clancy: (Laughing) Yeah, that’s gotta be!

Shelley: He’s upstairs! Go off him!

Clancy: He’s upstairs! Get busy!

Shelley: Exactly! Last night on HBO Sofie starts out the show as a true, total believer. She doesn’t have a problem with any of it. But after she meets up with Ben in the camp, she starts to doubt, especially after witnessing Brother Justin deal with the two guards who let Ben in the house, huh Clancy? It’s like, excuse me… what?

Clancy: One of which is her dad, by the way.

Shelley: Oh really? Clea’s Dad?

Clancy: Yeah, that’s Clea’s Dad…

Shelley: The guy who put his hand down?

Clancy: No, the guy who raised the hatchet.

Shelley: Ah-ha!

Clancy: That’s Clea’s Dad.

Shelley: Well, that’s kinda fun.

Clancy: Yeah, it was kinda fun. Like I said, we had to accelerate the deprogramming. It is strange to me, though, that the Carnivale shows up and, once again, her life becomes miserable! (laughing)

Shelley: I know, isn’t that true?

Clancy: (laughing) She like finally… I mean, even if it’s built on a lie, she’s finally, like, the happiest we’ve ever seen her, ya know?

Shelley: Right.

Clancy: She’s sort of out of herself, and she’s in service, and she’s over all of her junk. And then the Carnivale shows up and brings it all back… (laughing hard)

Shelley: Yeah, she goes walking down into the camp and there’s Rita Sue and… oh, no! You’ve gotta be kidding!

Clancy: Yeah, I’m sorry, there’s just no escape. (chuckling)

Shelley: (laughing) But later that night… Brother Justin invites Sofie to sit behind… beside him -- behind him would be bad -- on the porch swing, and he leans over to her and, uh, what did he say?

Clancy: He said, “I can see who you are…” And I made a mistake once in the reading, as I did through this whole episode, for some reason I couldn’t get these lines out. But I did say, “I know who you are” at one point, and everybody rushed up to me and said, “No-no-no-no-no! You DON’T know who she is, in terms of…”

Shelley: Who she is…

Clancy: Who she is…

Shelley: In terms of who everybody else knows she is.

Clancy: It’s a “line” – “I can see who you are.” He CAN’T see who she is.

Shelley: Okay.

Clancy: It’s a “line.” From that perspective, even though it wasn’t something clearly done, it was sort of one of those brilliant poetic lines that the girl’s wrote – Dawn & Nicole – that’s what women script writers bring to a script, I think.

Shelley: That little intricate thing…?

Clancy: Yeah.

Shelley: That WE end up hearing that you guys end up saying, that we all know is just BULL!

Clancy: Right!

Shelley: (laughing)

Clancy: Right! But we don’t know it’s bull. We think it’s true, for some reason!

Shelley: How ‘bout that? Right on for the women screenwriters, huh? Now, let’s do a little bit of a recap of one of the decent parts of the… Well, there are LOTS of decent parts of the show, but let’s do a recap. Iris, Brother Justin’s sister, informs Norman that Sofie is the byproduct of Justin’s violent dalliance, if you will, with what she calls “That ridiculous fortune teller in St. Paul.”

Clancy: Ya know, I like to lay it all on that… that self-flagellation, uprightness, and…

Shelley: That he knew he had done something INCREDIBLY wrong, and he had to atone for that sin.

Clancy: Right, for the rest of his life, you know, denying the flesh and all that stuff. So then, of course, all that builds up, after a while.

Shelley: Well, yeah!

Clancy: (laughing)

Shelley: The self-flagellation doesn’t provide that much release.

Clancy: That’s right. And then you realize that actually you’re an Avatar, you’re a Creature of Darkness in service to God, or whatever you are, you’re special, so them rules don’t apply!

Shelley: (chuckles) You didn’t really think those rules applied anyway, huh? But the other thing that was kind of startling was during the Baptism scene, poor dead Eleanor, she just kind of floats to the top of the pond…

Clancy: Yeah, that was actually a bigger moment in the original script. There was a whole… it spun Justin into another sermon there in the water, which I’m SO glad they decided to cut before we even shot it. Cuz I spent long enough (chuckling), in that pond, I tell ya what!

Shelley: (laughing)

Clancy: Oh, my God…

Shelley: I bet you did.

Clancy: (chuckling) But yeah, that was a nice moment. I… (laughing) I can’t help but chuckle when I see that scene, because it was a built dummy that looked JUST like K Callan with her brains bashed in! And there were all sorts of jokes floating around, as it were.

Shelley: (laughing) Oh, man…

Clancy: (chuckling)

Shelley: Nice! Season finale on Sunday night at 10:00. The repeat of last night’s episode tonight at 8:00 on HBO2. Clancy Brown, thank you so much for spending another Monday with us, “Decoding Carnivale”! We’ll be watching!

Clancy: Alrighty!

Shelley: All right!

Clancy: Seeya Shell…

Shelley: Take care.

Clancy: Bye.

WIRX “Decoding Carnivale” call-in with Clancy Brown & Tim DeKay • 03-14-05

This is the transcript from Clancy’s radio call-in segment on Southwest Michigan’s WIRX/Rock 107.1, with Shelley Morgan.

SHELLEY: More revealed last night on HBO’s “Carnivale”. Brother Justin Crowe, actor Clancy Brown, is on the line and we’re gonna “Decode Carnivale.” Clancy, we found out a bit more about Brother Justin last night, and Apollonia, who is Sofie’s mom, and their, uh… well… I want to say relationship, but it wasn’t really a relationship.

CLANCY: Well, I STILL don’t think we found out the circumstances of it.

Shelley: But we saw a little bit more, and we know that Iris has knowledge of it. And so we didn’t know that before.

Clancy: Right. And we also know that Norman has knowledge of it, so this is obviously an episode in their past lives, but the details of it are still mysterious, and how they hooked up with each other. And that’s sort of what I want to know! (chuckling)

Shelley: Just cuz…

Clancy: Just cuz…

Shelley: It helps your backstory, right?

Clancy: It is a bit of backstory...

Shelley: It helps you as an actor.

Clancy: Uh, it explains things to everybody BUT Justin. So now, everybody’s hip to it, but Justin. He still doesn’t quite grasp it that that’s his daughter. But maybe he will, now that he’s got the boon… I’m not sure.

Shelley: Well, okay, now that you’ve brought up the boon… Have we ever really found out exactly what the boon is?

Clancy: Well… I… Ya know…

Shelley: Was it ever explained to you?

Clancy: Judging from what happened when Ben got his boon, I would think it’s, you know, it’s like a tremor, it’s like a seismic event in the metaphysical world that effects people that are sensitive. But I got mine and nothin’ happened to Ben!

Shelley: Thank you very much!

Clancy: So, I dunno!

Shelley: I noticed that! I was like, wait a second, shouldn’t Ben be like driving off the road now? Shouldn’t he be…? Shouldn’t he know it instinctively?

Clancy: You’d think that. I mean, it’s pretty obvious. Maybe Justin’s just more sensitive. I think that’s a joke, but I also think that the only explanation is that, somehow, Justin is just a little more empathetic to this metaphysical place, this astral world that they operate in. But yeah, you would think so. You would think that every time Justin draws upon that power source, that somehow Ben would respond. But, no, it doesn’t happen that way.

Shelley: All right! I told you we had a special guest… Let’s click it through! Tim DeKay, who plays Jonesy on “Carnivale”!

Clancy: Okay!

Shelley: Hello!

Clancy: Shelley?

TIM: Shelley!

Shelley: Yeah!

Clancy: Tim, Shelley.

Shelley: Hi!

Tim: Hi, how are ya?

Shelley: I’m doing well! How are you?

Tim: I’m good, thanks! I’m in an airport right now, just waiting to fly to Denver for some promotional stuff.

Shelley: And it’s always fun to fly to Denver in March! Eek!

Tim & Clancy: (laughing)

(Background noise of a flight being called over a loudspeaker)

Tim: See? That’s proof that I’m in an airport.

Shelley: (laughing)

Clancy: Ya know, what I wanna know is…

Tim: Yeah?

Clancy: … Why would Jonesy leave his wife, his new wife, to the mercy of Rita – who we both know is going to behave badly. And Jonesy knows it. He’s witnessed it. He knows how cruel they can be to Libby, and you’re lovely wife PLEADING with you not to do this…

Tim: Not to go. Right.

Clancy: And Ben saying, “Don’t come with me.”

Tim: Right. Why would Jonesy still do it? Well, he says, “I don’t know, it’s something I gotta do.” I guess… I think because if you were on your death bed, with tar & feathers all over you (chuckling), and somebody healed ya, you kinda owed them a little bit. And since Jonesy doesn’t have much in his pocket, he basically has gotta help him out that way. He knows he’s gotta do something. He’s got this feeling about Hawkins that he doesn’t know what… He certainly doesn’t know that it’s “save the world”, but he does know, well, maybe he’s got some score to settle with some guy in another town, something like that, and I’ll be there to help him.

Shelley: But we’ve been talking about how Jonesy is SO John Wayne!

Clancy: And that’s really what I was driving at! (chuckling) He doesn’t need to do anything that makes any sense, as long as he’s… I mean, to normal people, because he is, he just does the right thing. He intrinsically knows what has to happen.

Tim: Yeah, they certainly have written him that way.

Clancy: He doesn’t plead for his own life. He wants them to leave his wife alone. He wants them to leave the woman alone.

Tim: Oh, interesting!

Clancy: It’s kinda incredible! Well, it’s not incredible… It makes perfect sense.

Tim: He’s the one guy who gets up every morning, I think, on this show… The one character that just says, “I wanna do the right thing.” And sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn’t. He certainly falls, he drinks a little too much, and maybe has too much of a temper. But he’s trying to do the right thing. It’s just innate. It’s in his nature. And I guess there is a bit of that John Wayne, the classic hero with flaws, kind of a Burt Lancaster. I remember Dan Knauf told me, if Burt Lancaster were alive, we’d try and cast him in the role instead of you. But there is that essence of Jonesy where, because I think there’s so many… not that he’s simple, because here’s so many complex elements going around in the story, that he’s there to just kinda keep it simple and try to keep it right.

Shelley: On the phone Tim DeKay and Clancy Brown from HBO’s “Carnivale”. We’re “Decoding Carnivale,” and maybe not even decoding “Carnivale” today, more than just talking to Tim & Clancy about their characters. So, havin’ a good time playing Jonesy, do ya Tim?

Tim: It’s fun playing him! Ya know, and I get to kiss Cynthia Ettinger, and I get to kiss Carla Gallo, and Clea DuVall, so I can’t argue that!

Shelley: Yeah! Life is rough!

Tim: Yeah, I know it.

Shelley: But then you get tarred and feathered.

Clancy: You never get to kiss me…

Shelley: No, there’s no kidding between the two of you?

Tim: Well, we’re NOT going to say anything… Keep watchin’!

Shelley: That’s future episode stuff! We can’t talk about that.

Tim: Exactly!

Shelley: So, one of the things that was so wonderful… And we’re not talking about Sunday night’s show, but the Sunday night before, when Ben heals Jonesy, it was so great to watch Jonesy’s joy at, first of all, still being alive and not having the tar and feather thing there. But when he realizes, ya know, his knee is okay now…

Tim: You know, you’ve carried around this burden for so long, and this thing that kept you from something that meant everything to you, and now you no longer have it.

Clancy: My favorite moment is when you realize you didn’t feel that pain anymore.

Tim: Yeah!

Clancy: You know, it’s become part of your daily life, and… you know, it was just great! It was like it just dawned on you, “Holy (bleeped)! Wait a minute…”

Tim: Yeah! It was also written in a way where he didn’t know either, Ben didn’t… “What are you talkin’ about?” You know… And it was still one of those things where Jonesy’s, “I’ve still gotta SEE it.” Even though I can run, even though I don’t feel any more pain, and I can bend it a certain way and I don’t have that awful feeling in my knee, I still have to see it to believe it.

Shelley: Sure, see it to believe it. Uh-huh.

Tim: Yeah, and then it’s just holy cow! Wow! It’s like winning the lottery. It was as if, you know, somebody just said, “You’ve won a million dollars.” And also it was interesting as an actor, because it informs, it just informs everything you do. It informs on how you sit in a scene, it informs… It’s always there, the pain of the knee and the fact that you have that brace is always there. And when you don’t, it’s interesting, cuz there were a couple of times where I was limping where they had to say, “Cut!” because I didn’t need to be limping anymore.

Shelley: Sure!

Tim: But I’m so used to being in that world with a limp. Yeah, it’s… it’s a great challenge. And one of the great things that the writers do, and I’m sure Clancy would attest to this, is that the STAKES are always so high in this show. It’s always fun to act with high stakes. Wouldn’t you say, Clancy?

Clancy: And the stakes were very clearly drawn in that… in my favorite moment in that scene, back there, when Libby says, “Are you GONNA come back?” And he says, “Well, yeah.”

Tim: Yeah! Of course, I will!

Clancy: And if I’m Jonesy, I don’t know what I’m getting’ into, but… (chuckles)

Tim: I know, I don’t!

Clancy: I’m coming back… I THINK I’m coming back… I’m pretty sure I’m gonna make it back, but you know, as we all know watching it, there’s a possibility not that you won’t come back because you’re dumping her, but you won’t come back because you’re dead!

Tim: True.

Shelley: Exactly.

Tim: Yeah.

Clancy: Yes, that was a great… That was a great final moment for you guys. You guys are good together, you and Libby.

Tim: Oh, it’s so fun! Yeah, she’s got some wonderful stuff this year, too!

Shelley: We gotta wind this up, “Decoding Carnivale”… And it’s definitely been a FUN day today as not only Clancy Brown on the phone, but special guest, Tim Dekay, who plays Jonesy, Clayton Jones. And so, Tim… What’s fun about having a special guest is I can kinda, ya know, go, having Clancy Brown around, what’s that like, baby?

Tim: Brother Justin is one strapping, handsome man in that black cassock. Let me tell ya…

Shelley: Don’t you think?

Tim: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah…

Shelley: I think Clancy should wear that all the time.

Tim: I swear to you, after EVERY episode, my wife says, “He is SO sexy… but scary.”

Shelley: (laughing)

Tim: And I always have to say, “Um, what about Jonesy, honey? What didja think about Jonesy?” “Oh, yeah, yeah… That was good. But CLANCY, there is just something about him!” And I’m like, “Oh, boy… I’ll be in the kitchen doing the dishes.”

Shelley: Cuz she’s completely emasculated you, huh?

Tim: Oh, completely. Clancy, Clancy, Clancy… Sexy, sexy…

Shelley: That’s really funny. Okay, so we talked about Jonesy, we talked about Brother Justin. So, this is actually the first time I got to talk to one of the other actors on the show. Last week, Dan Knauf was on the show, and that was a blast! But, so… I’ve never really been able to ask this… I guess maybe I did ask this of Clancy right at the beginning, but Tim, what do you like about being on “Carnivale”?

Tim: It’s so far from my reality. It’s a period piece, it’s way out in the middle of nowhere, where we film, so it’s just… The second I put on those clothes, I don’t have to deal with my reality.

Shelley: Well, and your reality, also, is that you wear CLEAN clothes.

Tim: I do!

Shelley: And you get to take a shower.

Tim: Yeah, people have asked me what’s the difference between you and Jonesy? And I say, for one, I bathe – every day!

Clancy: (evil chuckle)

Tim: Whereas Jonesy bathes… ya know, once a week, maybe? Maybe? It depends. But the trucks have to be clean first.

Shelley: If it’s a good Saturday night, yeah. You might get to shower.

Tim: Why not? But now that I’m married, I don’t need to. Libby doesn’t care.

Shelley: Uh-uh.

Tim: (chuckles)

Shelley: But the thing that happened when, after he’d been healed and the tar came off of him, he was all clean and stuff. And I’m like, wow, look! Look, Jonesy’s clean! The tar!

Tim: The tar, yeah!

Shelley: The tar really works!

Tim: Oh, yeah, that was a HUGE discussion… Okay, is he, you know… If he heals him, does that mean, since his skin becomes clean again, does that mean that the tar just falls off? Well, some of it does, some of it doesn’t. Oh, yeah… That was a huge discussion about what we do. Um, I just heard my announcement, so... Thanks!

Shelley: Have a safe flight!

Tim: Thank you! Shelley, it was great talking to you.

Shelley: Same here, Tim.

Tim: Clancy, take care,

Clancy: All right.

Shelley: Seeya! Wow! How about that? Got a chance to talk to, not only Clancy Brown, which is ALWAYS a great time, but Tim DeKay, too, “Decoding Carnivale” this week. And let’s see, tonight they’ll rerun last night’s episode on HBO2. And then only two new episodes left in this season. So, wow! Sunday night at 10:00, HBO… “Carnivale”.

WIRX “Decoding Carnivale” call-in with Clancy Brown • 02-28-05

This is the transcript from Clancy’s radio call-in segment on Southwest Michigan’s WIRX/Rock 107.1, with Shelley Morgan.

SHELLEY: It’s Monday, which means it’s after Sunday, and even though there was lots of Oscar action going on last night, there was “Carnivale,” as well. So it’s time to Decode Carnivale with Brother Justin Crowe on the show, known on this side of the TV screen as Clancy Brown. Something else cool going on over the weekend, and even through tonight online… It’s called CarnyCon. It’s an online “Carnivale” convention, complete with chats with some of the show’s stars. In fact, last night Clancy Brown was chatting after “Carnivale” aired on the east coast. Tonight, you can chat with “Carnivale” creator, Dan Knauf, and poke around the inside of his head! Which seems to be a very scary place… You can check it out online at mooncross.net/carnivale. Or if you just go to WIRX.com, we’ll link you there. There’s a really cool Online Auction site, as well, proceeds going to the Beth Brown Memorial Fund.
Now before we get down to business with last night’s show and “Decoding Carnivale”, Clancy, tell me about the Beth Brown Memorial Fund.

CLANCY: The Beth Brown Memorial Fund is named after my older sister who died when she was seven of childhood leukemia. I was about five and, back then, and it was just not… It wasn’t a pleasant thing to go through. And now that I have kids, I realize how horrible it was, especially for my parents. But what they did was, rather than champion leukemia research and all the rest of that, which was going on and still happens, and is a very healthy charity, they wanted to do something a little more specific to Beth. And Beth wanted to be a nurse, so they started a fund to give modest scholarships to young ladies, at the time, who wanted to be nurses. And it’s since grown, and we do modest scholarships to people who want to have careers in healthcare. I think that there’s actually a heart surgeon who got a couple hundred bucks from the Beth Brown Memorial Fund. But it’s been a very quiet and private charity for a lot of years, funded mostly by my folks. And now that I’m getting at least some kind of notoriety, I’m trying to turn that attention into that, so they can give more money to more people, and been a little more aggressive about raising funds through things like this auction and giving money myself. But it’s worthwhile. It’s a neat little alumni association – everybody from your local nurse to a heart surgeon has been touched by this charity in a modest way. And it’s worthwhile, I think. And it’s not… We don’t spend any money on paying any officers or promotion or anything like that. So, ALL the money goes toward endowing these scholarships. And so I’m immensely grateful to anybody who wants to even acknowledge it. So, if anybody wants to send us a buck or two, you have my undying gratitude.

Shelley: So, if you’re interested in the Beth Brown Memorial Fund, you can go to www.wirx.com , We will definitely link you to where you can find out more. Okay!
So, that being said… Let us “Decode Carnivale.” And last night at CarnyCon, during last night’s chat, one of the questions from one of the folks online was about you character, Brother Justin Crowe, being Sofie’s father! Which I… I must admit, I missed somewhere in the show!

Clancy: I… I think you can presume that Justin raped Apollonia.

Shelley: Okay.

Clancy: I don’t think we know the details of it, and I don’t think, actually, we ever will know the details of it. I’ve even asked that question. And I’ve gotten kind of a general answer. But we did see, in season one, when we saw Apollonia being raped, we saw…

Shelley: The Tattoo…

Clancy: And we saw another person without a tattoo, with his shirt on – Thank God! And that was me!

Shelley: Okay.

Clancy: And I think it’s pretty clear, although there’s cuts and stuff amongst it, it’s very clear that there’s two beings doing the same act. And one is a manifestation of the future, of destiny, of the nature of Justin… And one is definitely Justin. I think I can say that safely…

Shelley: Without getting into too much trouble! At the end of the show last night, it showed… it was one of those “Wow, I should have seen that coming!” moments, again. Sofie, the new maid in the Crowe household! How ‘bout that?!?

Clancy: Well, yeah! And because the story is unfolding so fast now, because everybody was complaining about last season and the first part of this season, you have a lot of people now saying, “Oh, I knew it! I saw it coming a mile away!” Well, ya know what? It wasn’t a mile away. It was like two episodes ago, okay? If you saw it a mile away, then you saw it in the middle of last season which, of course, nobody saw. Now, some people like to be fooled, some people like to be surprised, and some people don’t want to see the magic trick, don’t want to see how it ends. And some people, as soon as they see how it’s done say, “Oh, I knew it!” (Laughing) Like, okay… whatever! It is what it is. It’s a magic trick. You’re supposed to enjoy it.

Shelley: And I did enjoy it!

Clancy: (laughing) Good!

Shelley: I was like, “Oh, that TOTALLY makes sense! This is gonna be fun!”

Clancy: Right, because the payoff ultimately isn’t what happens, it’s sort of how you get there.

Shelley: Exactly.

Clancy: Sort of the grades of subtlety of how it’s accomplished.

Shelley: Life is a journey, not a destination.

Clancy: There ya go! (chuckling)

Shelley: Hey, let’s go back to the beginning of the show. On “Carnivale” last night it picked up where last week’s episode left off, I mean right there. Management, or Belyakov, dead on the floor of the trailer, blue blood oozing from his body, and then drawing up into the knife that Ben must use to kill Justin. Blue blood – Avatar blood!

Clancy: We’ve seen blue blood before, and we know that it is significant, that there is a point at which these Avatars… Their blood turns blue, for some reason. (chuckling) You know… We know when it happens now. We know that somebody has to die. We know that it comes with enlightenment, that’s one of the prices of enlightenment. So, it’s safe to assume now that Ben probably has blue blood.

Shelley: One would think!

Clancy: And Justin probably DOESN’T yet, but he might soon!

Shelley: He’s gotta be getting close to it. If he kills Scudder, then he would get the blue blood.

Clancy: Right. That’s right. And that’s a logical conclusion to come to, as well.

Shelley: And now that Management is dead, Ben receives all of Management’s knowledge and power and enlightenment, basically.

Clancy: Ben knows everything. But not everybody believes him, or not the important people. Samson doesn’t believe him yet.

Shelley: Ya know, I think Samson’s on his way, though, because of the accident on Colossus…

Clancy: Absolutely right.

Shelley: Where he was the only one who saw what was going on between Ben and the mother and the son.

Clancy: Right.

Shelley: He stood there and watched, and then later on with the trailer… Ben manifests this trailer for Samson to go take a look at, and instead of being able to bring Belyakov back, he could bring some of his things back, so that Samson could kind of say goodbye.

Clancy: Right.

Shelley: Samson doesn’t believe fully, but he’s on his way.

Clancy: Yes… I think by the end of this show he believes fully. I think when you see someone actually do what Ben did, and he can manifest a trip down Memory Lane for Samson, then I think Samson’s won over. And I think in the next few episodes, you see Ben slowly convince everyone.

Shelley: Oh, really?

Clancy: Transform everyone in the Carnivale to be his advocates.

Shelley: Really?!?

Clancy: Well, at least the essential folks, you know? Eventually, everyone becomes convinced to be his disciple, and to follow him into battle. But that’s gonna be a theme ongoing, turning people into believers.

Shelley: Duh, that makes sense. I’m sorry… I’m sitting here feeling like a dumbass, because he would need to do that, because Justin’s been doing that.

Clancy: And Justin has… What Justin has that Ben doesn’t have is an army of believers. He has thousands… I mean, did he mention the numbers tonight?

Shelley: There was seventeen thousand people that were at New Canaan.

Clancy: Right, he has seventeen thousand believers that will do what he thinks is the right thing to do.

Shelley: Right.

Clancy: You know, that’s not good odds, one in seventeen thousand. So maybe it’s a little better if there’s, ya know, seven or eight or ten against seventeen thousand. (chuckling)

Shelley: A little bit better.

Clancy: A little better.

Shelley: Not much, but a little. It’s somethin’!

Clancy: (chuckling) It’s somethin’, anyway…

Shelley: (giggling) Ben needs all the help he can get. Now, after the show last night, you were online at CarnyCon, the show’s online convention. Doing what?

Clancy: That’s right. And I was Servicing the Faithful, that’s what I like to think… (evil chuckle)

Shelley: Yeah, that’s what it is! I think that’s what we’re gonna start calling Justin’s little dalliances with the maids – “Servicing the Faithful.”

Clancy: (chuckling) Servicing the Faithful! That’s excellent! Excellent!

Shelley: I love that!

Clancy: And here’s a little something about that, as well… Those are not rapes, by any means.

Shelley: No!

Clancy: Okay? And I’m not just protecting Justin here…

Shelley: No, they’re not! The women come to him willingly!

Clancy: Indeed. But if they’re rapes, it diminishes the one rape that we knew that happened. And that one, THAT one, has to stand above anything. THAT is the rape that occurs in this show, and that is… That’s a horrible, terrible event for SO many reasons…

Shelley: Um-hmm.

Clancy: So, any of the other things that happen…? Those aren’t rapes. They’re rough, and they may be more than anyone expected, but they’re not rapes.

Shelley: I never had that impression – ever.

Clancy: Okay, good.

Shelley: I never did. The women come to him… C’mon! He’s an incredibly powerful figure. Women are attracted to power. They come to him willingly, whether he’s a man of the cloth or not.

Clancy: Atta-girl! Thank you, Shell… (chuckling)

Shelley: You’re welcome. I have to stand up for you!

Clancy: (chuckling) Thank you!

Shelley: Because some people just don’t get it!

Clancy: That’s right… Hate me for everything else! But don’t hate me for that.

Shelley: Okay, now that we’ve explained that part of the show… how ‘bout Jonesy and Libby?

Clancy: Whoo-hoo!

Shelley: It’s like, oh no… They’re gonna get married.

Clancy: Of course!

Shelley: Oh, boy!

Clancy: Of course! What else are they gonna do?

Shelley: I know…

Clancy: I mean, that’s just what people do! (chuckling)

Shelley: Get drunk and get married. But it was great! It was… Libby finally standing up and saying, “Ya know what? You don’t own me, and YOU don’t own me! I’m gonna do what I wanna do, and you all just have to deal with it.”

Clancy: It definitely means a lot more to her than it does to Jones. I mean, it means a lot to Jones, but it MIGHT have saved her life. And it might kill her, at the same time. So, yeah… It was a relief, but… You know, she’s out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Shelley: Mm-hmm. Which isn’t a surprise, cuz it’s “Carnivale.” So, a Stroud update, he’s got Scudder tied up in the back of his car, he’s on his way to meet up with Brother Justin, he stops for gas, hits the john, walks out of the bathroom into a Bonnie & Clyde kinda holdup – with the Bonnie & Clyde look-alikes in a convertible, ripping off the gas pump jockey. Stroud isn’t having any of it, and he shoots ‘em!

Clancy: Cuz for a second you think, “Oh, wow! Stroud’s doing the right thing!” But really, his motive is he wants the convertible!

Shelley: And can you blame him?

Clancy: (chuckling) Yeah!

Shelley: Cuz he’s driving around in the Dodge that still smells like the Dailey Brothers.

Clancy: Exactly.

Shelley: You gotta get aired out!

Clancy: And why not use a nice new convertible? Although somebody did point out to me that those cars and stuff – I sure had no knowledge of this thing – that that model of convertible is significantly less powerful than the sedan that he was in. To which I kinda said, “Ya know, it really doesn’t matter, cuz it’s a convertible!”

Shelley: Exactly!

Clancy: (laughing)

Shelley: C’mon, there are four cylinder Miatas, for cryin’ out loud! It’s a convertible!

Clancy: That’s right. It’s a convertible. There’s peddle-pusher Miatas and it doesn’t matter!

Shelley: Exactly.

Clancy: The guy with the convertible gets the chicks. That’s all that matters.

Shelley: Exactly! “Carnivale” moves to 10:00 pm this Sunday night on HBO. So, you’ll turn it on at nine, watch a brand new “Deadwood”, followed by a brand new “Carnivale”. Check out CarnyCon online tonight! And actually, I guess, through the end of the week, at mooncross.net/carnivale, or just go to WIRX.com. We’ll definitely link you there! Clancy thanks again for taking the time to spend with us.

Clancy: Good! I’ll seeya later.

Shelley: Good to talk to ya!

Clancy: Thanks!

Shelley: Bye…

WIRX “Decoding Carnivale” call-in with Clancy Brown & Dan Knauf • 03-07-05

This is the transcript from Clancy’s radio call-in segment on Southwest Michigan’s WIRX/Rock 107.1, with Shelley Morgan.

SHELLEY: First, it’s after four o’clock! Time to “Decode Carnivale” with Brother Justin Crowe from the show, actor Clancy Brown… And a Special Guest this week! “Carnivale” creator Dan Knauf! Always fun to get to talk to Clancy, but I gotta tell ya, Dan. I’m pretty excited to get to talk to you!

DAN: Aw… I’d hold that in reserve until you talk to me for a bit, and then you might be completely regretting it.

Shelley: I shouldn’t be so impressed, right at the beginning?

Dan: (Laughing) Um… no.

Shelley: Okay. So, I’ll hold the impressed until later.

Dan: Yeah!

Shelley: I really enjoyed the show.

Dan: Yeah, Ben’s become a regular heal-a-thon lately!

Shelley: He has, hasn’t he?

Dan: Yeah, he’s a busy little guy…

Shelly: But I’m sitting there watching and seeing the most horrific thing. Because you hear of people who have been tarred and feathered, but it’s not something you ever really visualize.

Dan: Yeah, we kind of took it out of the Three Stooges territory.

Shelley: Yeah, you think?

CLANCY: It always seemed like such fun, didn’t it? It always seemed like such a fun image…

Dan: Yeah, just sort of Small Town Wacky!

Clancy: Yeah!

Dan: But no, it wasn’t fun.

Shelley: It was VERY horrific!

Dan: (chuckles)

Shelley: I mean, wow! And so Ben shows up… and you knew that was gonna happen!

Dan: Oh, yeah!

Shelley: Because Ben needs to, as Clancy and I have been talking about, Ben needs to start building his army. He needs to start bringing his disciples together.

Dan: Plus, he was kind of presented with a Hobson’s choice there. He needs to stop the guy from getting Scudder to Brother Justin, which is really important for the whole world, but then again, his friend is in trouble. And not really even his friend! Just somebody he worked with. And thank goodness he made the right choice.

Shelley: But you still get the feeling… You know that, if it were anybody at the side of the road, Ben would do it.

Dan. Ah, I don’t know.

Clancy: I don’t know!

Shelley: Really?

Clancy: I don’t know, I was kinda surprised he did it.

Dan: Yeah, I think if it was just some guy, like, holding up a sign that said “Will Work For Healin’!” he probably woulda just blown right past him.

Shelley: (laughing)

Clancy: (chuckling)

Shelley: Yeah, I’m thinkin’ that. But Ben is… He’s compassionate! And if there was someone who really needed his help…

(Dogs barking in background)

Dan: Oh, yeah.

Clancy: Ben is a softie…

Shelley: It was such a cool moment between Ben & Jonesy.

Dan: Yeah!

Shelley: There was this great connection before Ben started to heal him.

Dan: I think it’s kind of cool when you’ve got two guys who have always sort of not gotten along, and you go, “You know, those guys should be friends, cuz they’re both nice guys.” And then they finally hook up. You know what I mean?

Shelley: Um-hmm.

Dan: So yeah, it was fun to write, and I think it was fun to watch.

Shelley: And then, when the tar just kind of falls off of him…

Dan: Yeah.

Shelley: That was a really great image to see, too. Because earlier, Libby had tried to pull it off of him, and she knew that just wasn’t gonna happen.

Dan: Yeah!

Clancy: But there are a couple of spas here in Southern California where you can have a Tar Treatment.

Shelley: (chuckling) Wow! That doesn’t sound like fun at all.

Clancy: (chuckling) That Hot Tar Treatment, it’s great for the skin!

Dan: I went to Two Bunch Palms, I got the whole Tar n’ Feather deal!

Shelley: (laughing) How much did that set you back?

Dan: (laughing) Actually, they were payin’ me…

Shelley: Oh…

Dan: See, it was another guest who actually got to do it to me. So it’s sort of a thing.

Shelley: (laughing)

Clancy: And it was for the show, so you get to write it off.

Dan: Yeah.

Shelley: It was research, exactly. Beautiful! “Decoding Carnivale” with not only Clancy Brown, but “Carnivale” creator Dan Knauf. A bit of a glance inside the character of Brother Justin Crowe last night!

Dan: What I liked about this episode is that it kinda brought back the whole thing… There was real sincerity and love from Justin to Balthus.

Shelley: Yeah!

Dan: And Clancy played it beautifully, as just “Get away from this man!.” Cuz he LOVES him! That’s his FATHER!

Shelley: Right!

Dan: And that doesn’t just go away because you happen to be the Creature of Darkness!

Shelley: (chuckling) Right, because he’s not all bad. He’s human, and there are good points and bad points.

Dan: Yeah, and when he sits down and starts being Pastoral with Sofie, I think he’s really trying to help her. I don’t think he’s, “Well hey, maybe if we get down on our knees and pray, I can work somthin’ here!” I think he’s half-human. And nobody’s the bad guy in their own story!

Shelley: It worked so well because it was caring and compassionate.

Dan: (Laughing) And yet, you know no good can come of it!

Clancy: (Evil laugh)

Dan: The casts of both worlds very rarely meet. And when they do, it’s always kind of like two guys waving from passing ships. So in a way, it was really kind of neat to inject Sofie into that world. And it’s fun to see her playing scenes with Iris and Brother Justin.

Shelley: She’s out of her element, but she’s so excited to be someplace else, and seeing something else, and having new experiences, and stuff.

Clancy: Yes! Yes! And plus she’s a lot cleaner…

Shelley: Well, that’s true.

Dan: (Evil laugh)

Shelley: Maybe that’s what the difference was! She actually had taken a bath!

Clancy: Yes, she’s thrilled to have soap.

Shelley: (Laughing)

Clancy: In the last few episodes, and this one included, we’ve seen Justin have visions of mortal vulnerability, and the impression it’s headed his way.

Dan: Yeah, I think Justin is beginning to hear that ticking crocodile.

Clancy: Yes, he’s hearing the ticking crocodile, so there’s real fear in it. And maybe the only comfort he has anymore is in his human side. He’s entering Jerusalem, as it were, so he knows somethin’s gonna happen that could very well result in his death. He hasn’t quite put it all together yet, but…

Shelley: No, because Justin doesn’t have as much information as Ben does, because Scudder’s still alive.

Clancy: Right:

Shelley: And speaking of Scudder… We see Scudder and Stroud in a cheap motel room, and Ben sees them too! Because Ben’s there I the room.

Clancy: Yeah, what was that, a little astral projection? I didn’t know Ben could do that!

Dan: Yeah, Ben can… But it HURTS.

Shelley: Oh, it does?

Dan: Oh yeah, if he focuses… He’s not really taking himself out. He’s not really going there like in a bi-location. Physically, he’s not there.

Shelley: Right, the people he’s looking at can’t see him. It’s kind of like “A Christmas Carol.”

Dan: Yeah, but it takes it out of him.

Shelley: That’s why he started the nosebleed.

Dan: Yes, the blue nosebleed.

Shelley: With the blue blood… Very nice.

Clancy: And I liked the line he said, too. “Jeepers!”

Dan: It’s always fun to write that stuff in.

Shelley: Cuz you can’t really use those kinds of words writing it for contemporary…

Dan: You could, but the person would be like a total dork. But in that time, you could say stuff like “Jeepers!” Jeepers-Creepers! And still be cool. Maybe we’ll bring back “Jeepers”, Clancy!

Clancy: I’m… looking for opportunities. I’m looking for opportunities to say a lot of these lines…

Dan: Like “Putting the boots to the biscuit”…

Clancy: Yeah.

Dan: Yeah.

Shelley: Bringing back Jeepers… That’s gonna happen, I can tell!

Dan: (chuckling) Jeepers!

Clancy: Jeepers!

Dan: It sounds cool when YOU say it!

Shelley: It sounds cool when Clancy says it, cuz anything sounds cool when Clancy says it.

Dan: Yeah.

Clancy: You’ll have to use that on the radio more and more. Say Jeepers!

Dan: Yeah, just start saying it! Jeepers!

Shelley: Yeah, that’s gonna happen guys! (laughing) Didn’t you just say that when people say “Jeepers” now, they sound like dorks? (laughing) Yeah… We’re gonna continue that. We’ll keep the Jeepers goin’! So let’s see, what else happened last night?

Dan: That whole thing with Ruthie was really creepy!

Clancy: Yeah, no kiddin’!

Dan: I tell ya, it’s times like that I’m really happy that we went with Adrienne, cuz she’s got all the experience on all those John Carpenter movies. Ya know? She really knows how to open her eyes into a freaky reveal.

Clancy: (chuckling)

Dan: BOING!!!

Shelley: (laughing) And then Lila’s knocking on the door.

Dan: Isn’t it funny how Lila is courting her?

Shelley: I know! She’s hitting on her!

Clancy: What’s that all about?

Dan: (chuckling)

Shelley: Well, I don’t know. Maybe she feels that when Ruthie channels Lodz, she might get some. I don’t know! Maybe Lila’s lonely!

Dan: I felt a little bad, though, cuz you can actually see the beard kind coming off Debra in that shot!

Clancy: (evil chuckle)

Shelley: I was gonna say something about that…

Dan: Yeah, the beard was really falling off… (evil chuckle)

Shelley: It looked very sparse. It hasn’t looked that sparse before.

Clancy: I was just looking at her eyes, those pleading, pathetic eyes…

Shelley: Puppy dog eyes…

Dan: I know! Isn’t she great?

Shelley: Yeah, she really is.

Dan: Yeah, it’s always like that when your boyfriend suddenly becomes a girl.

Shelley: (giggling)

Clancy: I know, in your pursuit of the unattainable… You’ll try anything!

Dan: And Amy rocked last night.

Shelley: Didn’t she?

Dan: She’s just really freakin’ scary!

Clancy: She is sooo scary!

Shelley: Because she can go from those moments, as well, when she’s talking to Balthus, ya know?

Dan: (evil chuckle)

Shelley: She’s still being very hard as a rock, but she’s being very gentle with him.

Dan: Yeah!

Shelley: And then just pickin’ up that oar, and just smackin’ Eleanor on the top of the head! And just beating her to death!

Dan: Yeah, it’s been YEARS since I’ve seen anybody get a good oar-whackin’ on TV! (laughing)

Clancy: (chuckling) I always like the arrest after the initial smack. It’s like, “Oh, I smacked her over the head.” Like that’s enough. “Well… maybe that’s not enough,” (laughing)

Dan: (Laughing)

Shelley: Maybe she needs three or four more!

Dan: One good whack deserves another!

Clancy: Yeah, I LOVED that!

Dan: And another, and another, and another… I think this show, the theme, in a way, if you look at it, it’s really kind of a Three Stooges thing. Between getting hit on the head with an oar and getting tarred & feathered… There was a lot of Moe-ness going on.

Shelley: (laughing) I didn’t catch that! I didn’t catch the Three Stooges analogy so much. But you’re right!

Clancy: Curly is the Creature of Light, and Moe is the Creature of Darkness, and they’re battling for the soul of Larry, I think.

Dan: Yeah, that’s pretty much… Shh! Don’t let the cat out of the bag!

Shelley: (laughing)

Dan: What we’re doing here is really The Three Stooges meets Milton’s “Paradise Lost”. That’s basically the theme.

Clancy: (chuckling in the background)

Shelley: Wow. That was your pitch, wasn’t it?

Dan: That’s EXACTLY what I went in with.

Shelley: Mm-hmm… And kudos to HBO for being able to go, “You know, that sounds pretty awesome! Let’s do that!”

Dan: They were pretty drunk.

Shelley: (laughing hard) I think that’s always a good move in a pitch meeting, to make sure the guys you’re trying to get that story sold to are just hammered off their ass.

Dan: Oh, yeah! Chris Albrecht woke up the next morning and just, “I bought WHAT?!?”

Shelley: Well, we still have a couple more episodes left, what’s next for us on HBO’s “Carnivale”?

Clancy: Well, there’s gonna be MANY more questions and MANY more answers in the coming weeks, so…

Shelley: We’ve got three new episodes left!

Clancy: Three episodes left for this season, and they’re chock full of fun stuff, too. (evil laugh) There’s not a lot of exposition to happen anymore, there’s only loose ends to tie up -- or at least pay-offs to pay off.

(sound of train going by in the background)

Shelley: Okay.

Clancy: We’re going to the bank. We’re cashing in a lot of the atmospheric exposition chips that we’ve built up over the last couple of seasons.

Shelley: Alrighty then! You heard it from the men themselves! Clancy Brown and Dan Knauf, thanks for taking time out to help us “Decode Carnivale” again – on HBO2 tonight, the repeat, and then, Sunday night at 10:00, a brand-new episode. We only have THREE MORE new episodes, so if you haven’t gotten into it yet, there’s still time. And it’s a really great show! So, check it out. And thanks again, you guys!

Listen to Clancy's "Decoding Carnivale" radio shows on MP3 at the CarnyCon!

Sorry I've been so behind in transcribing Clancy's "Decoding Carnivale" radio shows, but I've been swamped with all my "CarnyCon/Charity Auction duties lately. I promise I'll try to get the transcripts up soon!

In the meantime, please visit the CarnyCon and read Clancy's latest interview in our Midway, and then listen to "Brother Justin's Church of the Air" (Clancy's "Decoding Carnivale" Radio Shows)

I think you'll enjoy both the CarnyCon and giving those MP3s a listen.

Enjoy!