WIRX “Decoding Carnivale” call-in with Clancy Brown & Dan Knauf • 03-07-05

This is the transcript from Clancy’s radio call-in segment on Southwest Michigan’s WIRX/Rock 107.1, with Shelley Morgan.

SHELLEY: First, it’s after four o’clock! Time to “Decode Carnivale” with Brother Justin Crowe from the show, actor Clancy Brown… And a Special Guest this week! “Carnivale” creator Dan Knauf! Always fun to get to talk to Clancy, but I gotta tell ya, Dan. I’m pretty excited to get to talk to you!

DAN: Aw… I’d hold that in reserve until you talk to me for a bit, and then you might be completely regretting it.

Shelley: I shouldn’t be so impressed, right at the beginning?

Dan: (Laughing) Um… no.

Shelley: Okay. So, I’ll hold the impressed until later.

Dan: Yeah!

Shelley: I really enjoyed the show.

Dan: Yeah, Ben’s become a regular heal-a-thon lately!

Shelley: He has, hasn’t he?

Dan: Yeah, he’s a busy little guy…

Shelly: But I’m sitting there watching and seeing the most horrific thing. Because you hear of people who have been tarred and feathered, but it’s not something you ever really visualize.

Dan: Yeah, we kind of took it out of the Three Stooges territory.

Shelley: Yeah, you think?

CLANCY: It always seemed like such fun, didn’t it? It always seemed like such a fun image…

Dan: Yeah, just sort of Small Town Wacky!

Clancy: Yeah!

Dan: But no, it wasn’t fun.

Shelley: It was VERY horrific!

Dan: (chuckles)

Shelley: I mean, wow! And so Ben shows up… and you knew that was gonna happen!

Dan: Oh, yeah!

Shelley: Because Ben needs to, as Clancy and I have been talking about, Ben needs to start building his army. He needs to start bringing his disciples together.

Dan: Plus, he was kind of presented with a Hobson’s choice there. He needs to stop the guy from getting Scudder to Brother Justin, which is really important for the whole world, but then again, his friend is in trouble. And not really even his friend! Just somebody he worked with. And thank goodness he made the right choice.

Shelley: But you still get the feeling… You know that, if it were anybody at the side of the road, Ben would do it.

Dan. Ah, I don’t know.

Clancy: I don’t know!

Shelley: Really?

Clancy: I don’t know, I was kinda surprised he did it.

Dan: Yeah, I think if it was just some guy, like, holding up a sign that said “Will Work For Healin’!” he probably woulda just blown right past him.

Shelley: (laughing)

Clancy: (chuckling)

Shelley: Yeah, I’m thinkin’ that. But Ben is… He’s compassionate! And if there was someone who really needed his help…

(Dogs barking in background)

Dan: Oh, yeah.

Clancy: Ben is a softie…

Shelley: It was such a cool moment between Ben & Jonesy.

Dan: Yeah!

Shelley: There was this great connection before Ben started to heal him.

Dan: I think it’s kind of cool when you’ve got two guys who have always sort of not gotten along, and you go, “You know, those guys should be friends, cuz they’re both nice guys.” And then they finally hook up. You know what I mean?

Shelley: Um-hmm.

Dan: So yeah, it was fun to write, and I think it was fun to watch.

Shelley: And then, when the tar just kind of falls off of him…

Dan: Yeah.

Shelley: That was a really great image to see, too. Because earlier, Libby had tried to pull it off of him, and she knew that just wasn’t gonna happen.

Dan: Yeah!

Clancy: But there are a couple of spas here in Southern California where you can have a Tar Treatment.

Shelley: (chuckling) Wow! That doesn’t sound like fun at all.

Clancy: (chuckling) That Hot Tar Treatment, it’s great for the skin!

Dan: I went to Two Bunch Palms, I got the whole Tar n’ Feather deal!

Shelley: (laughing) How much did that set you back?

Dan: (laughing) Actually, they were payin’ me…

Shelley: Oh…

Dan: See, it was another guest who actually got to do it to me. So it’s sort of a thing.

Shelley: (laughing)

Clancy: And it was for the show, so you get to write it off.

Dan: Yeah.

Shelley: It was research, exactly. Beautiful! “Decoding Carnivale” with not only Clancy Brown, but “Carnivale” creator Dan Knauf. A bit of a glance inside the character of Brother Justin Crowe last night!

Dan: What I liked about this episode is that it kinda brought back the whole thing… There was real sincerity and love from Justin to Balthus.

Shelley: Yeah!

Dan: And Clancy played it beautifully, as just “Get away from this man!.” Cuz he LOVES him! That’s his FATHER!

Shelley: Right!

Dan: And that doesn’t just go away because you happen to be the Creature of Darkness!

Shelley: (chuckling) Right, because he’s not all bad. He’s human, and there are good points and bad points.

Dan: Yeah, and when he sits down and starts being Pastoral with Sofie, I think he’s really trying to help her. I don’t think he’s, “Well hey, maybe if we get down on our knees and pray, I can work somthin’ here!” I think he’s half-human. And nobody’s the bad guy in their own story!

Shelley: It worked so well because it was caring and compassionate.

Dan: (Laughing) And yet, you know no good can come of it!

Clancy: (Evil laugh)

Dan: The casts of both worlds very rarely meet. And when they do, it’s always kind of like two guys waving from passing ships. So in a way, it was really kind of neat to inject Sofie into that world. And it’s fun to see her playing scenes with Iris and Brother Justin.

Shelley: She’s out of her element, but she’s so excited to be someplace else, and seeing something else, and having new experiences, and stuff.

Clancy: Yes! Yes! And plus she’s a lot cleaner…

Shelley: Well, that’s true.

Dan: (Evil laugh)

Shelley: Maybe that’s what the difference was! She actually had taken a bath!

Clancy: Yes, she’s thrilled to have soap.

Shelley: (Laughing)

Clancy: In the last few episodes, and this one included, we’ve seen Justin have visions of mortal vulnerability, and the impression it’s headed his way.

Dan: Yeah, I think Justin is beginning to hear that ticking crocodile.

Clancy: Yes, he’s hearing the ticking crocodile, so there’s real fear in it. And maybe the only comfort he has anymore is in his human side. He’s entering Jerusalem, as it were, so he knows somethin’s gonna happen that could very well result in his death. He hasn’t quite put it all together yet, but…

Shelley: No, because Justin doesn’t have as much information as Ben does, because Scudder’s still alive.

Clancy: Right:

Shelley: And speaking of Scudder… We see Scudder and Stroud in a cheap motel room, and Ben sees them too! Because Ben’s there I the room.

Clancy: Yeah, what was that, a little astral projection? I didn’t know Ben could do that!

Dan: Yeah, Ben can… But it HURTS.

Shelley: Oh, it does?

Dan: Oh yeah, if he focuses… He’s not really taking himself out. He’s not really going there like in a bi-location. Physically, he’s not there.

Shelley: Right, the people he’s looking at can’t see him. It’s kind of like “A Christmas Carol.”

Dan: Yeah, but it takes it out of him.

Shelley: That’s why he started the nosebleed.

Dan: Yes, the blue nosebleed.

Shelley: With the blue blood… Very nice.

Clancy: And I liked the line he said, too. “Jeepers!”

Dan: It’s always fun to write that stuff in.

Shelley: Cuz you can’t really use those kinds of words writing it for contemporary…

Dan: You could, but the person would be like a total dork. But in that time, you could say stuff like “Jeepers!” Jeepers-Creepers! And still be cool. Maybe we’ll bring back “Jeepers”, Clancy!

Clancy: I’m… looking for opportunities. I’m looking for opportunities to say a lot of these lines…

Dan: Like “Putting the boots to the biscuit”…

Clancy: Yeah.

Dan: Yeah.

Shelley: Bringing back Jeepers… That’s gonna happen, I can tell!

Dan: (chuckling) Jeepers!

Clancy: Jeepers!

Dan: It sounds cool when YOU say it!

Shelley: It sounds cool when Clancy says it, cuz anything sounds cool when Clancy says it.

Dan: Yeah.

Clancy: You’ll have to use that on the radio more and more. Say Jeepers!

Dan: Yeah, just start saying it! Jeepers!

Shelley: Yeah, that’s gonna happen guys! (laughing) Didn’t you just say that when people say “Jeepers” now, they sound like dorks? (laughing) Yeah… We’re gonna continue that. We’ll keep the Jeepers goin’! So let’s see, what else happened last night?

Dan: That whole thing with Ruthie was really creepy!

Clancy: Yeah, no kiddin’!

Dan: I tell ya, it’s times like that I’m really happy that we went with Adrienne, cuz she’s got all the experience on all those John Carpenter movies. Ya know? She really knows how to open her eyes into a freaky reveal.

Clancy: (chuckling)

Dan: BOING!!!

Shelley: (laughing) And then Lila’s knocking on the door.

Dan: Isn’t it funny how Lila is courting her?

Shelley: I know! She’s hitting on her!

Clancy: What’s that all about?

Dan: (chuckling)

Shelley: Well, I don’t know. Maybe she feels that when Ruthie channels Lodz, she might get some. I don’t know! Maybe Lila’s lonely!

Dan: I felt a little bad, though, cuz you can actually see the beard kind coming off Debra in that shot!

Clancy: (evil chuckle)

Shelley: I was gonna say something about that…

Dan: Yeah, the beard was really falling off… (evil chuckle)

Shelley: It looked very sparse. It hasn’t looked that sparse before.

Clancy: I was just looking at her eyes, those pleading, pathetic eyes…

Shelley: Puppy dog eyes…

Dan: I know! Isn’t she great?

Shelley: Yeah, she really is.

Dan: Yeah, it’s always like that when your boyfriend suddenly becomes a girl.

Shelley: (giggling)

Clancy: I know, in your pursuit of the unattainable… You’ll try anything!

Dan: And Amy rocked last night.

Shelley: Didn’t she?

Dan: She’s just really freakin’ scary!

Clancy: She is sooo scary!

Shelley: Because she can go from those moments, as well, when she’s talking to Balthus, ya know?

Dan: (evil chuckle)

Shelley: She’s still being very hard as a rock, but she’s being very gentle with him.

Dan: Yeah!

Shelley: And then just pickin’ up that oar, and just smackin’ Eleanor on the top of the head! And just beating her to death!

Dan: Yeah, it’s been YEARS since I’ve seen anybody get a good oar-whackin’ on TV! (laughing)

Clancy: (chuckling) I always like the arrest after the initial smack. It’s like, “Oh, I smacked her over the head.” Like that’s enough. “Well… maybe that’s not enough,” (laughing)

Dan: (Laughing)

Shelley: Maybe she needs three or four more!

Dan: One good whack deserves another!

Clancy: Yeah, I LOVED that!

Dan: And another, and another, and another… I think this show, the theme, in a way, if you look at it, it’s really kind of a Three Stooges thing. Between getting hit on the head with an oar and getting tarred & feathered… There was a lot of Moe-ness going on.

Shelley: (laughing) I didn’t catch that! I didn’t catch the Three Stooges analogy so much. But you’re right!

Clancy: Curly is the Creature of Light, and Moe is the Creature of Darkness, and they’re battling for the soul of Larry, I think.

Dan: Yeah, that’s pretty much… Shh! Don’t let the cat out of the bag!

Shelley: (laughing)

Dan: What we’re doing here is really The Three Stooges meets Milton’s “Paradise Lost”. That’s basically the theme.

Clancy: (chuckling in the background)

Shelley: Wow. That was your pitch, wasn’t it?

Dan: That’s EXACTLY what I went in with.

Shelley: Mm-hmm… And kudos to HBO for being able to go, “You know, that sounds pretty awesome! Let’s do that!”

Dan: They were pretty drunk.

Shelley: (laughing hard) I think that’s always a good move in a pitch meeting, to make sure the guys you’re trying to get that story sold to are just hammered off their ass.

Dan: Oh, yeah! Chris Albrecht woke up the next morning and just, “I bought WHAT?!?”

Shelley: Well, we still have a couple more episodes left, what’s next for us on HBO’s “Carnivale”?

Clancy: Well, there’s gonna be MANY more questions and MANY more answers in the coming weeks, so…

Shelley: We’ve got three new episodes left!

Clancy: Three episodes left for this season, and they’re chock full of fun stuff, too. (evil laugh) There’s not a lot of exposition to happen anymore, there’s only loose ends to tie up -- or at least pay-offs to pay off.

(sound of train going by in the background)

Shelley: Okay.

Clancy: We’re going to the bank. We’re cashing in a lot of the atmospheric exposition chips that we’ve built up over the last couple of seasons.

Shelley: Alrighty then! You heard it from the men themselves! Clancy Brown and Dan Knauf, thanks for taking time out to help us “Decode Carnivale” again – on HBO2 tonight, the repeat, and then, Sunday night at 10:00, a brand-new episode. We only have THREE MORE new episodes, so if you haven’t gotten into it yet, there’s still time. And it’s a really great show! So, check it out. And thanks again, you guys!