WIRX “Decoding Carnivale” call-in with Clancy Brown • 02-07-05

This is the transcript from Clancy’s radio call-in segment on Southwest Michigan’s WIRX/Rock 107.1, with Shelley Morgan.

Shelley Morgan: HBO, that’s the only place you need to be, even during the Super Bowl, as “Carnivale” showed us a new chapter in “Carnivale” last night. And the man who plays Brother Justin Crowe, Clancy Brown, is on the phone with us. Clancy, talking about “Carnivale” opening with, well, with a little bit of… another vision, I guess. Another vision of Ben’s…

Clancy Brown: I think that was a post-Apocalyptic vision, at least as per the script, that was supposed to be a post-Apocalyptic…

Shelley: Yeah, after The Bomb, because everything was black ash.

Clancy: Exactly.

Shelley: I assume that the black ash were people.

Clancy: Ooh, nice! Yeah! Why not? Why not?

Shelley: Mm-hmm.

Clancy: Absolutely. It was a little dark for my taste, I mean it was lit very darkly.

Shelley: Well, until you popped out and went, “Raaargh!”

Clancy: I remember it from the script. Yes, that was difficult.

Shelley: (laughing) That’s a question that I have. (The “Carnivale” theme song starts to play in the background.) Because, this is what you do, this is your job. But at some point, some of the things you have to do, you just have to go with it, don’t ya?

Clancy: Yeah. You do. You know, you gotta make funny faces and do funny voices and do funny walks. That one was, for some reason… That was very difficult. It was far more difficult than standing there with the tattoo, for some reason. The me, jumping up and going, “Raaargh!”

Shelley: (laughing) Because…

Clancy: Thank goodness they put in that lion roar or bear roar, or whatever it was. I’m so glad that they enhanced that, because my little growl (laughing), wasn’t scary enough!

Shelley: I’m sure your growl was quite scary. (laughing)

Clancy: Nope. (laughing) No! No, they made is scary, thank goodness.

Shelley: Wow, that had to have been hard to do.

Clancy: It was just one of those movie moments where you think, ya know, you need this piece. Everyone knows what it’s supposed to be. But in reality, it’s like the dumbest thing in the world! It’s like, you know, Boogey Man kinda, and it’s not surprising to anybody, cuz it’s all set up, you know. So it’s not like you can turn to somebody and say, “Hey, how’s that? Did that scare ya?” (chuckles)

Shelley: (laughing)

Clancy: They’re just trying to stifle their giggles – as was I! But hopefully, it’s effective when it’s all put together.

Shelley: And it was.

Clancy: Good.

Shelley: Yeah. It was… It was still funny, cuz, like I said, I was sitting there going, “Oh, boy! That had to have been… Yeah, you had to have felt really silly. REALLY silly, doing that.”

(Station/Music Break)

Shelley: Clancy Brown, on the phone. Clancy plays Brother Justin Crowe on HBO’s “Carnivale.” And last night we had Super Bowl, and the first half of the Super Bowl, and then Paul MacCartney, singing Beatles songs, making me sing along. And then I turn on “Carnivale” and I’m disturbed!

Clancy: That was a creepy, CREEPY episode! (chuckling)

Shelley: (laughing) And actually, the creepiest thing was the guy who made the masks.

Clancy: Oh, my Goodness! That Truman Capote voice of his, and ugh! Like, what was that about? He was… He’s a scary dude.

Shelley: There was that, there was the whole, ya know, his house was immaculate, and he was very clean, compared to the people we normally see, or at least half of the people we normally see on “Carnivale.” They’re very dirty. He was SO clean!

Clancy: Yes, and he seemed very well-to-do and, ya know… Maybe that’s one of the themes of the show is that everyone that seems to be thriving during this period, during this Depression, this period of great poverty… Everyone that thrives is on the side of evil or something. I dunno…

Shelley: They’re pretty messed up.

Clancy: But did it really happen, that’s the other thing? Well, we know it DID happen, because of the scene later with Justin…. But that kinda freaked me out, too, that Ben woke up on the couch, and maybe it was another one of those weird visions. And it really wasn’t until we saw the mask get unpacked that you know that it was a real event. And the impression I got from how it was written and how it was played, was that this was a fatal endeavor by anyone who was getting a mask done.

Shelley: Yes.

Clancy: That it killed the person who was getting the mask.

Shelley: I would agree.

Clancy: So, when he woke up and he was alive and on the couch, I had to kinda do a doubletake. Like, well, maybe it didn’t happen.

Shelley: But it did happen, didn’t it? Well, and that’s when you just kinda go, “Okay…” Because it’s “Carnivale”, and you sit there and you go, “I dunno what’s going on.” But it’s fun to watch!

(Music/Station Break)

Shelley: It’s Clancy Brown from HBO’s “Carnivale”, on the phone, we are “Decoding Carnivale”. And last night, on the show, Tommy Dolan brings Justin proof that Justin’s sister Iris set the orphanage fire. Justin’s taking it okay, in front of Tommy.

Clancy: Justin seems to be a bit more theatrical about it. When he was standing at the window and said, “I said, ‘Follow the road’, and here it is at my door.” He didn’t know that would happen?

Shelley: I think he’s playing it out for both Iris and for Tommy.

Clancy: You think so?

Shelley: I think so!

Clancy: I wonder if there’s not some other thing that he was hoping, perhaps, he didn’t have to make the choice between Tommy and Iris. That perhaps Tommy wouldn’t be able to definitively identify Iris as the culprit. And maybe that’s what’s working with him, rather than some grand master plan he had from the beginning, when he set Tommy on the trail. I mean, Nixon said, “We’re gonna investigate this.” And he knew exactly what happened from the get-go.

Shelley: (laughing) Right.

Clancy: “We’re gonna fully investigate this and all the perpetrators are gonna be brought to justice.” And somehow, in the back of his mind, he was hoping, of course, that it would dead end someplace.

Shelley: An interesting analogy.

Clancy: Ya know?

Shelley: Richard Nixon/Brother Justin Crowe.

Clancy: Right. Well, I mean, ya know, conspiracies and cover-ups.

Shelley: No, I understand…

Clancy: So, yeah, Nixon wishes he was Brother Justin, ya know? (laughing)

Shelley: (laughing) He wishes he had that badass tattoo!

Clancy: He wishes he had that tattoo and those speech writers, I’ll tell you what! They built that story in an interesting way, differing slightly from what was scripted to what is presented. That always makes me think of the problem in performance, but… enough about me.

Shelley: Oh, it’s not a problem in your performance!

Clancy: (chuckling)

Shelley: It would have to be a problem in someone else’s performance.

Clancy: And is it kinda weird that Balthus, at that point, turns into a piece of furniture?

Shelley: Yeah! I find that very odd. If he’s just gonna be there to witness things, why even have him there at all. There’s gotta… Once again, it’s “Carnivale”, there had to be a reason for him to be there.

Clancy: Remember that.

Shelley: Okay.

Clancy: Remember that moment. Remember what Balthus learned, what Balthus discovers…

Shelley: I love it when you give me direction to watch the next show…

(Music/Station break)

Shelley: Let’s do it! Let’s finish up “Decoding Carnivale” with Clancy Brown, from HBO’s “Carnivale” and… Let’s see, next week, they’re going to Damascus.

Clancy: Yes, Damascus, that’s the one shot I hated in this show last night.

Shelley: Really?

Clancy: The Animal Planet shot.

Shelley: (laughter)

Clancy: I thought that was just awful…

Shelley: (laughing) That’s pretty funny!

Clancy: And it’s only because the show is so expertly built from a visual standpoint that that shot stood out to me as particularly not effective. But that’s probably why it was so short. The other images in that little flash, I have NO idea what they were.

Shelley: No idea why the guy’s face melted off? Very “Raiders of the Lost Ark”-like?

Clancy: Oh, was that what that was?

Shelley: That’s what it looked like to me, yeah.

Clancy: Okay.

Shelley: And especially since, I mean, that happened after… We’re talking about Sofie’s card reading. Um, she had… There was the Two of Wands…

Clancy: Right.

Shelley: There were The Lovers, and then there was The Moon. With the first one Ben saw a vision. With the second one, she saw a vision, and it was of she and Ben kissing after the big Bomb blast.

Clancy: Yes, I love that. That was actually the funniest moment, to me. “Did you see…? What did you see?” “Nuthin! No… I didn’t…”

Shelley: Yeah

Clancy: That was lovely.

Shelley: She’s not gonna tell him, “I saw us makin’ out, baby!”

Clancy: Ha!

Shelley: So, pucker up!

Clancy: Yeah, pucker up!

Shelley: And uh, so then, the last part, you know, with the Animal Planet shot, then it followed that there was a face. And to me it looked like it was Henry Scudder with his face melted off.

Clancy: Oh, okay. It looked like some kind of African mask, to me, I couldn’t tell what it was. Well, maybe I just wasn’t paying attention that hard. I dunno.

Shelley: Hey, you had a couple of beers in you. It was post-Super Bowl.

Clancy: That’s right.

Shelley: You were allowed. So, thank you, Clancy, for hanging out with us again, and for helping us “Decode Carnivale”. And if you didn’t see it last night and you’re intrigued, tonight at 8 o’clock, HBO2, and a couple of different reruns through the week. And then, new episodes on Sunday night. HBO’s “Carnivale”!

WIRX “Decoding Carnivale” call-in with Clancy Brown • 01-31-05

This is the transcript from Clancy’s radio call-in segment on Southwest Michigan’s WIRX/Rock 107.1, with Shelley Morgan.

SHELLEY: Even though we are a little shy from 4:20, we’re gonna do it anyway. We are gonna talk to Clancy Brown, who plays Brother Justin Crowe on HBO’s “Carnivale”. (Theme song starts up) C’mon, I know how to say that! I’m gonna start out first, Clancy, by playing a little bit of sound from the show last night. It was the opening of the show, and it was the sounds that one character heard though the walls of the maid’s quarters, cuz this was… wow! (clip of the sounds Norman hears upstairs in Justin’s room – screaming and growling.) Hear that? When you and I started this, it was really fun to kinda tease you about the sex stuff that was happening on the show…

CLANCY: (Evil laugh)

Shelley: Ya know what? It’s not fun anymore.

Clancy: Not fun anymore, why’s that?

Shelley: Wow! That was pretty brutal, starting out the show

Clancy: (laughing) Yeah, it was! It was weird, wasn’t it? Didja hear all that growly, lion roaring sound effects and stuff?

Shelley: Demon kind of growls… Yeah, heard that!

Clancy: That was scary!

Shelley: And obviously, it was something that, you think, if he had gotten some, maybe, ya know, lately, he wouldn’t have been such an animal?

Clancy: Oh… ya think? I mean…

Shelley: No, no… of course it was there for a couple of different reasons, I would think. For Norman’s benefit -- he was, once again, showing off power to Dad.

Clancy: Mmm-hmm.

Shelley: And another, to make us think something.

Clancy: What were we supposed to think in that one?

Shelley: Well, weren’t we supposed to think that he IS Satan, he IS the Beast?

Clancy: Ya know, that’s what it sounded like to me, with those roars and stuff in it. But I wasn’t really sure that I heard it. I couldn’t really tell, I don’t have a great sound system on my TV, so…

Shelley: You aren’t in Surround Sound?

Clancy: No…

Shelley: Oh.

Clancy: So, I couldn’t really tell for sure.

Shelley: It sounded like it was happening in the next room, to me.

Clancy: I dunno. Ya know, every time you have one of these shots, it’s always a matter of perspective. What you don’t see… Uh, what you don’t see may or may not be what you think it is. It really has more to do with the perspective of who’s on camera. I mean, he’s furious. Old Balthus is pretty upset, Old Norman.

Shelley: Mm-hmm.

Clancy: You know, maybe he’s just, not imagining it but… Ya know, he’s definitely puttin’ on what he wants to put on. I don’t know that he’s completely justified to be so outraged. But, yeah, maybe he is. I don’t know.

Shelley: Well, I think he sees that Brother Justin is abusing his power.

Clancy: But he doesn’t even understand that power! He doesn’t know what’s going on.

Shelley: But it’s still abuse of power for a man of the cloth.

Clancy: Yeah, ya know, and I suppose destroying Sodom and Gomorrah was kind of an abuse of power, in a way. Or maybe the rain for forty days and forty nights, perhaps, could have been an abuse of power. Ya know, when you get into these sort of human standards for divine behavior, ya know, I don’t know that we’re… that we have the equipment to judge appropriately.

Shelley: Later in the show, you see Celeste, and she’s pretty messed up.

Clancy: She is messed up.

Shelley: Well, there are bite marks and everything!

Clancy: Yeah, there is. Yeah, yeah… That, I don’t know what that means, but…

Shelley: You don’t know what that means?

Clancy: Well, I mean, I know what it’s supposed to mean, but I’m not... ya know.

Shelley: You’re not sure that it really means that.

Clancy: I’m not sure that it really means anything beyond that, ya know, they had some fun rough sex, ya know? She might just be that… She looked like she was actually having a good time. I mean, she looked like she… Ya know, of course, she was huddled up in the corner, but…

Shelley: Naked, with a look on her face like, “Holy crap!”

Clancy: Yeah.

Shelley: (laughs)

Clancy: It’s all sort of… At this point, it’s all sort of fun and games, I think, for Justin.

Shelley: If that’s fun and games… I don’t wanna be playin’ Strip Scrabble with the guy! I’m sorry, just don’t.

(Station/Music break)

Shelley: We are Decoding Carnivale with Clancy Brown, who plays Brother Justin Crowe on HBO’s “Carnivale”. Talking a little bit about the opening scene of the show last night, which, I’m sorry, was more than a little disturbing…

Clancy: But I’ll tell ya, that was NOTHING compared to Ben’s family! Okay?

Shelley: Wow! You are SO right!

Clancy: (Chuckling) It’s NOTHING compared to those cats!

Shelley: That’s obviously what they centered most of the show around. They were revealing a lot of information to you again.

Clancy: Yeah, you got a little back story.

Shelley: Yeah, get a LOT of back story, that Hawkin’s grandfather was a Grand Dragon in the KKK…

Clancy: Yeah. Ben doesn’t come from the best stock, I would say, ya know.

Shelley: The Crone ended up being Ben’s Grandma, and she said, “Your cousins are really jealous of you.”

Clancy: Right, right, “They wanna kill ya.”

Shelley: Maybe it’s…

Clancy: But they wanna kill everybody! I mean, he’s not special! (chuckling)

Shelley: And killing is in the family blood!

Clancy: They seem to… That just seems to be their way to say, “Howdy!”

Shelley: Well then, you don’t get to say much after “Howdy!”

Clancy: Yeah, no!

Shelley: Not big conversationalists, the Hawkins family.

Clancy: No…

Shelley: Or the Scudders, I’m sorry.

Clancy: But there’s always room for kin at the table!

Shelley: Isn’t that a nice thing to know?

Clancy: (laughing) That’s so sweet… And the other brilliant thing is, ya know, what parent hasn’t wanted to sew their kid’s mouth shut?

Shelley: How about that?

Clancy: (evil laugh)

Shelley: And if that happened to you, wouldn’t you just go outside and grab some scissors or something, and make sure that your mouth wasn’t sewn shut?

Clancy: Yeah, you would. But you know, there’s also… How did she do it to begin with? She’s got some kind of… They’re scared to death of her! She’s got something goin’ on that…

Shelley: Well, she gouged her eyes out, yet she can see.

Clancy: Yeah.

Shelley: So…

Clancy: Just because she doesn’t have eyes doesn’t mean she can’t see.

Shelley: You’d be scared of her too!

Clancy: Yeah, yeah. I am scared of her!

Shelley: Well, hang on… Don’t get too scared.

(Station break/music)

Shelley: We are chatting with Clancy Brown. We are “Decoding Carnivale”. On last night’s “Carnivale” on HBO, Ben gets the gift of a knife from the Crone, who just happens to be his grandmother, Scudder’s mother… And right as he put the knife in his hand, we see Brother Justin preaching, and Brother Justin then has a vision of Ben stabbing him with the knife. And he says, “He means to do me harm!” Brother Justin has had visions of Ben before, so I’m kinda confused because, doesn’t Justin see that there’s something swirling around Ben, too?

Clancy: You gotta remember what Justin knows and what he doesn’t know. What he does know is that he needs to find Scudder. He’s not AS concerned about Ben.

Shelley: Okay.

Clancy: He’s only concerned about Ben in that Ben shows up in these dreams. What Ben’s role is, I don’t think, is part of what he’s trying to accomplish, right now.

Shelley: Okay.

Clancy: I don’t think he knows as much about the rules of the game as Ben does.

Shelley: Okay.

Clancy: Ya know, this chain of events and all that, all that stuff we heard from Management early on.

Shelley: Mm-hmm.

Clancy: Justin doesn’t know that stuff. What Justin knows is that he’s got to find Scudder, and that he needs to kill him. He needs to find Scudder and kill him to become the Prophet. I’m sure I could go back and look at the episodes and know, but it’s… This is, it’s not an easy show to watch. You gotta… (laughing)

Shelley: Let’s go down a different path. I have a question for you. It’s something that I noticed that happened in the first season, and then, when we got more information in the second season, it’s different. I’m talkin’ about Management’s voice.

Clancy: Yes?

Shelley: In the first season it was very, it was very androgynous. You couldn’t tell whether Management was a male or a female. It was obviously… Management’s voice is played by Linda Hunt.

Clancy: Uh-huh.

Shelley: It was more in her normal voice, the first season. But since we found out Management is a man, they’ve lowered the octave of her voice.

Clancy: Oh, you think? Really?

Shelley: I think, yeah.

Clancy: I would have said it sounds more feminine, to me.

Shelley: Really? To me, it sounds more masculine, but…

Clancy: Ya know, Linda… and I know Linda a little bit. She’s… She can do anything with her voice. She’s got a great set of pipes on her.

Shelley: It seemed to me as if they‘re… I don’t know if they’re putting the voice through a processor or something. Because it seems as if it’s about an octave lower. It’s really interesting.

Clancy: Ya know, before last night, I would have said, no, they’re not putting it through a processor. But… And I don’t think they are, in her case, cuz she can do anything! But, I did… I was listening to the sermon that I was giving?

Shelley: Mm-hmm.

Clancy: And it seemed… There was something about the frequency that changed at a certain point. So they MAY have… They may have futzed with that.

Shelley: Oh, really?

Clancy: Yeah, it seemed like it to me. And I’m, you know, I’m pretty familiar with what I sound like.

Shelley: (laughing) Ya think?

Clancy: Yeah, so I don’t think, uh… I don’t think anyone in the show is above doing that. But I would be surprised, in Linda’s case, if they WERE doing that. They pretty much let her fly, and may be givin’ her a few pointers, and then she does it. They, um…It’s possible that they could give a direction that’s saying, you know, “You’re sounding s bit too feminine now.” And she’d make the adjustment.

Shelley: Mm-hmm.

Clancy: But see, I had the complete different feeling than you did on that.

Shelley: Hmm, but we both noticed it. And I think that’s what is important. And I think that’s why we love to watch the show, cuz it’s a little “Carnivale” touch that we both noticed.

(Music/Station Break)

Shelley: Clancy Brown from HBO’s “Carnivale”, helping us “Decode Carnivale” from last night. And we absolutely, positively have to talk about the Cooch family.

Clancy: Oh, yes!

Shelley: Wow! Ya know, obviously, if your… If your mama is a stripper and a hooker, and your daddy is basically your pimp, the you’re gonna be messed up in the head, in the first place, even if they didn’t put you into the family business at an incredibly young age.

Clancy: Yeah…

Shelley: But Libby’s losing it!

Clancy: Yeah, it’s so ugly, isn’t it?

Shelley: Yeah, it really is.

Clancy: It’s just yucky. They were kinda charming early on, ya know? And now it’s just getting’… (chuckling) It’s just getting uglier and uglier.

Shelley: Stumpy’s trying to make some extra cash as fast as he can, so he doesn’t get the livin’ snot beat out of him.

Clancy: Mm-hmm… That charming Stumpy.

Shelley: Yeah. He’s just… Isn’t he? So, he brings up this idea…

Clancy: Of The Lunch Counter.

Shelley: The Lunch Counter!

Clancy: Oy! Ugh…

Shelley: And if you didn’t watch the show, you gotta watch the show tonight, they’re rerunning it on HBO2, I believe it’s at 8 o’clock. You gotta watch it to find out what The Lunch Counter is.

Clancy: Absolutely. Find out what The Lunch Counter is…. and just shiver.

Shelley: Rita Sue goes, “No, there’s no way we’re gonna do that.”

Clancy: Right! She can… She can draw the line… (big laugh)

Shelley: (laughing)

Clancy: Yeah, The Lunch Counter is something not even…

Shelley: Not even Rita Sue is gonna go for.

Clancy: Not even Rita Sue is gonna go for that. That’s… (laughing)

Shelley: But them, but then Libby comes up and says, if you wanna do that Lunch Counter thing, I’ll do it.

Clancy: She loves her daddy.

Shelley: Yeah, but come on!

Clancy: You’re right, she’s messed up, but ya know… She messed up! She’s in a stripper family, what are ya gonna do?

Shelley: Since she and Sofie aren’t friends. At least, with Sofie, she kinda felt like she had maybe a way to escape. Cuz there was that one time that they were gonna all take off and go to Hollywood.

Clancy: Right.

Shelley: And now, I think she just feels like there’s nothing there. She’s down and she ain’t never getting’ back up.

Clancy: It could be real bad for her, going forward.

Shelley: Ugh. That’s really painful to watch.

Clancy: Yeah, but how ‘bout Jonesy, huh? He’s lookin’ buff, isn’t he?

Shelley: Wow! Ya know, I was gonna say that!

Clancy: (laughing) I mean, man, oh man! Way to go, Timmy!

Shelley: I was like, ya know, I normally like guys that are clean…

Clancy: (chuckling)

Shelley: But, ya know, dirty him up and make him sweaty, and I am all about Jonesy!

Clancy: Yeah! That sweaty thing is all paying off!

Shelley: It is pretty much, isn’t it? Okay, so let’s set up something for next episode… Last night, Lila, the Bearded Woman, still trying to figure out what happened to Lodz. And she’s throwing evidence of something fishy into the hands of the carnies.

Clancy: Right.

Shelley: She’s pulling them all in and going, “Hey, Management… Something happened, and they had something to do with it.”

Clancy: Yeah, and I sat there wondering if maybe Stumpy’s problem could be solved?

Shelley: I was thinking the exact same thing, cuz he was REALLY happy to see that money.

Clancy: Yeah!

Shelley: It was basically Lodz’s savings and, if he took off, you’d take that!

Clancy: Right.

Shelley: You’d take your money with you. You’d take your wallet with you.

Clancy: That’s the logic working, yeah.

Shelley: And so, there was a lot… Because Stumpy was like, “There’s a lot of money in here!”

Clancy: Yeah! And Lila’s stirring it up.

Shelley: Do we have a new episode this Sunday?

Clancy: Yes, I think we do. I think they said, ya know, “Next on Carnivale…” So I dunno… I think the Super Bowl will be over by the time “Carnivale” is on. And frankly, ya know, you’ll need to watch something with substance after the Super Bowl. Cuz those are just… Those are painful to watch. I wish they’d just shut up and play the football game.

Shelley: And I wish they were good games!

Clancy: Yeah. Well, this one might be…

Shelley: It might.

Clancy: It might be, you never know. It might be a good game, but there’s a lot of product to sell.

Shelley: (laughing) Yes, there is!

Clancy: Including Hondas!

Shelley: Yeah?

Clancy: Yeah, I’m doing a voice for a new Honda product, so everybody pay attention.

Shelley: And is it going to be in the Super Bowl?

Clancy: Yeah, I think so.

Shelley: All right! So, we’re gonna get a double dose of Clancy Brown.

Clancy: So, go out and buy some Hondas…

Shelley: And watch “Carnivale”!

Clancy: And watch “Carnivale”…

Shelley: And “SpongeBob”…

Clancy: And “SpongeBob”, and… whatever else you think I might be in, at the moment. And “Shawshank Redemption”, cuz it’s always on, all the time…

Shelley: (laughing) That and “Highlander”, man. I can never get away from, em.

Clancy: Watch em all. Keep watching em all.

Shelley: I definitely do.

Clancy: (chuckling) All right.

Shelley: Thank you, sir.

Clancy: All right, talk to you later, Shelley.

Shelley: Have a great week.

Clancy: You, too.

Shelley: Thanks! Thanks again to Clancy Brown, Brother Justin Crowe on HBO’s “Carnivale”, for helping us, each and every Monday, “Decode Carnivale.” Watch the episode that we just talked about tonight, HBO2, at 8 o’clock, and then after the Super Bowl, brand new episode, Sunday night at 9:00 on HBO. Watch this show! It’s a very cool show!